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	<title>Comments on: The two Internets, Jeffersonet and Edisonet, and why they need to be regulated differently</title>
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	<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/</link>
	<description>Technology ... politics ... marketing ... strategy ... life</description>
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		<title>By: Squeern</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-103857</link>
		<dc:creator>Squeern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-103857</guid>
		<description>Tired of a competitor&#039;s site? Hinder the enemy? Fed pioneers or copywriters? 

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Contact via ICQ: 588 666 582</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tired of a competitor&#8217;s site? Hinder the enemy? Fed pioneers or copywriters? </p>
<p>Kill their sites! How? We will help you in this!<br />
Obstructions of any site, portal, shop! </p>
<p>Different types of attacks: Date-attack, Trash, Attack, Attack, etc. Intellectual<br />
You can work on schedule, as well as the simultaneous attack of several sites. </p>
<p>On average the data, ordered the site falls within 5 minutes after the start. As a demonstration of our capabilities, allows screening. </p>
<p>Our prices </p>
<p>24 hours of attack &#8211; $ 70<br />
12 hours of the attack &#8211; $ 50<br />
1 hour attack &#8211; $ 25 </p>
<p>Contact via ICQ: 588 666 582</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-9004</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 06:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-9004</guid>
		<description>As for Jeffersonet working badly pre-broadband -- so what?

My point is that the lowest/cheapest tier should have its neutrality vigorously protected.  

I also think that higher tiers should be pretty nondiscriminatory as well.  Hence the structure of Tariff Rebate Passthrough.  But we don&#039;t have to be as heavy-handedly absolutist about the neutrality as we do for Jeffersonet.

CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for Jeffersonet working badly pre-broadband &#8212; so what?</p>
<p>My point is that the lowest/cheapest tier should have its neutrality vigorously protected.  </p>
<p>I also think that higher tiers should be pretty nondiscriminatory as well.  Hence the structure of Tariff Rebate Passthrough.  But we don&#8217;t have to be as heavy-handedly absolutist about the neutrality as we do for Jeffersonet.</p>
<p>CAM</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-9003</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-9003</guid>
		<description>Re your &quot;not one person&quot; Jim --

Hi!  Pleased to meetcha!

Last Friday we switched our cable TV service from Comcast to Verizon FiOS.  The driver for the decision was that we had an old DSL service (Speakeasy) that had suddenly REALLY gone to hell.  What&#039;s really ironic/appropriate is that it only went to hell for vanilla http; other protocols still had the same old performance, such as SMTP and even https.  Which all led to the weird result that I could surf much faster by logging into AOL and using their browser than I could in either Firefox or uncrippled IE.  Go figure.

Anyhow, Verizon FiOS seemed more appealing that Comcast by every metric (speed, cost, service) so we had it installed.   As of the first few days, it&#039;s doing great.

Hmm.  This is beginning to sound like a Verizon ad.  I think I&#039;ll go sign up for their affiliate program.  It shall be my first such sign-up ever.  :)   

CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re your &#8220;not one person&#8221; Jim &#8211;</p>
<p>Hi!  Pleased to meetcha!</p>
<p>Last Friday we switched our cable TV service from Comcast to Verizon FiOS.  The driver for the decision was that we had an old DSL service (Speakeasy) that had suddenly REALLY gone to hell.  What&#8217;s really ironic/appropriate is that it only went to hell for vanilla http; other protocols still had the same old performance, such as SMTP and even https.  Which all led to the weird result that I could surf much faster by logging into AOL and using their browser than I could in either Firefox or uncrippled IE.  Go figure.</p>
<p>Anyhow, Verizon FiOS seemed more appealing that Comcast by every metric (speed, cost, service) so we had it installed.   As of the first few days, it&#8217;s doing great.</p>
<p>Hmm.  This is beginning to sound like a Verizon ad.  I think I&#8217;ll go sign up for their affiliate program.  It shall be my first such sign-up ever.  <img src='http://www.monashreport.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    </p>
<p>CAM</p>
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		<title>By: holotone.net</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8990</link>
		<dc:creator>holotone.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8990</guid>
		<description>[...] The two Internets, Jeffersonet and Edisonet, and why they need to be regulated differently - In a way, proponents and opponents of network neutrality are both correct! That is, they are each correct about different aspects of the Internet. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The two Internets, Jeffersonet and Edisonet, and why they need to be regulated differently &#8211; In a way, proponents and opponents of network neutrality are both correct! That is, they are each correct about different aspects of the Internet. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RustyBadger</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8980</link>
		<dc:creator>RustyBadger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8980</guid>
		<description>Andy beat me to the punch - my first thought was that Teslanet would have been a better analogy than Edisonet. Edison had no vision for the future uses of his inventions, unlike Tesla. Regardless of the model employed, we need to fight the Edisons of the Internet who want to exert monopolies on the infrastructure and delivery methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy beat me to the punch &#8211; my first thought was that Teslanet would have been a better analogy than Edisonet. Edison had no vision for the future uses of his inventions, unlike Tesla. Regardless of the model employed, we need to fight the Edisons of the Internet who want to exert monopolies on the infrastructure and delivery methods.</p>
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		<title>By: abb3w</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8969</link>
		<dc:creator>abb3w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8969</guid>
		<description>I seem to recall the departmental expert on Edison&#039;s history mentioning that Tom Edison resisted for many years how the Phonograph and Movie were turned into tools for the entertainment of the unwashed masses. I&#039;d also deny that &quot;Jeffersonet doesn’t need anything beyond current levels of bandwidth and reliability.&quot; Bandwidth demand always grows to exceed existing capacity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to recall the departmental expert on Edison&#8217;s history mentioning that Tom Edison resisted for many years how the Phonograph and Movie were turned into tools for the entertainment of the unwashed masses. I&#8217;d also deny that &#8220;Jeffersonet doesn’t need anything beyond current levels of bandwidth and reliability.&#8221; Bandwidth demand always grows to exceed existing capacity.</p>
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		<title>By: Richi Jennings</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8958</link>
		<dc:creator>Richi Jennings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8958</guid>
		<description>Ooops. I guess Ian slashdotted us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops. I guess Ian slashdotted us.</p>
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		<title>By: James K. Lowden</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8954</link>
		<dc:creator>James K. Lowden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8954</guid>
		<description>No law prevents anyone from building another network alongside the Internet to carry futuristic telethis and telethat.  What prevents it are the exact interests that would build it: no collection of private groups will ever agree on neutral standards to convey the data.  

We already know what &quot;edisonet&quot; would look like: Compuserve, Prodigy, AOL, MCI Mail.  The Internet was the asteroid that wiped out those dinosaurs.  We also already have a tiered service network.  It used to be called the Bell System.  It hasn&#039;t changed much since then.  

There&#039;s no example anywhere of a shared proprietary protocol yielding great service.  Or even much service.  Look at the wireless data offerings by the bells.  

There&#039;s also no evidence that the Internet is failing to innovate or invest.  What&#039;s preventing &quot;video dial tone&quot; isn&#039;t TCP/IP or net neutrality; it&#039;s the MPAA and DRM.  No kind of tiered service will change that kind of thinking. 

Finally, remember that each provider today already charges his customers what he wants.  The &quot;tiered service&quot; advocates want to charge *others&#039;* customers, based on content or origin or whatever.  It&#039;s a disguised way for Verizon, say, to charge enough extra on Vonage packets to put Vonage out of business.  It&#039;s all about -- and *only* about -- old-fashioned monopolistic control.  

We don&#039;t need a &quot;compromise&quot;.  We need legislators and the nontechnical public to recognize that the Internet succeeds because of its free and nondiscriminatory structure.   There&#039;s no need or advantage to selling it to private interests.  Let them try and fail again to build their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No law prevents anyone from building another network alongside the Internet to carry futuristic telethis and telethat.  What prevents it are the exact interests that would build it: no collection of private groups will ever agree on neutral standards to convey the data.  </p>
<p>We already know what &#8220;edisonet&#8221; would look like: Compuserve, Prodigy, AOL, MCI Mail.  The Internet was the asteroid that wiped out those dinosaurs.  We also already have a tiered service network.  It used to be called the Bell System.  It hasn&#8217;t changed much since then.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no example anywhere of a shared proprietary protocol yielding great service.  Or even much service.  Look at the wireless data offerings by the bells.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also no evidence that the Internet is failing to innovate or invest.  What&#8217;s preventing &#8220;video dial tone&#8221; isn&#8217;t TCP/IP or net neutrality; it&#8217;s the MPAA and DRM.  No kind of tiered service will change that kind of thinking. </p>
<p>Finally, remember that each provider today already charges his customers what he wants.  The &#8220;tiered service&#8221; advocates want to charge *others&#8217;* customers, based on content or origin or whatever.  It&#8217;s a disguised way for Verizon, say, to charge enough extra on Vonage packets to put Vonage out of business.  It&#8217;s all about &#8212; and *only* about &#8212; old-fashioned monopolistic control.  </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need a &#8220;compromise&#8221;.  We need legislators and the nontechnical public to recognize that the Internet succeeds because of its free and nondiscriminatory structure.   There&#8217;s no need or advantage to selling it to private interests.  Let them try and fail again to build their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Vernon</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8951</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Vernon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8951</guid>
		<description>You say Jeffersonet is &quot;already working just fine&quot; and regulators &quot;actually do a pretty good job&quot; with certain types of regulatory tasks.  This ignores two important facts:

1.  Jeffersonet didn&#039;t work very well for a lot of folks until broadband became widely available.  Even old-fashioned web pages didn&#039;t load very fast over dial-up, for a lot of users in the &quot;first 13 years&quot;.  Personally, I&#039;d say close to half that period lacked the sort of everyday experience of &quot;working just fine&quot; that you describe.

2.  Regulators have completely screwed up with respect to competition for the last mile (or last 100 feet) of cable/fiber.  I don&#039;t know anyone (not one person) who has an actual choice of who provides cable internet access to his/her home.  This relates to the fact that I don&#039;t know anyone who has an actual choice of who provides cable television, either.  (Yes, I know that I can get satellite service, from one other competitor, but that&#039;s not a perfect substitute.)  Competition stopped when municipalities bent over and granted local monopolies.  Good regulatory policy would have ensured that multiple content providers could compete over the same infrastructure, just as multiple long-distance carriers can compete over the same telephony infrastructure, or multiple wireless carriers can compete over the same tower infrastructure.  That would still leave some regulatory and competitive problems, to be sure, but my local cable provider would behave much differentl (= better) if another provider could come to my home and say &quot;here are our service options&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say Jeffersonet is &#8220;already working just fine&#8221; and regulators &#8220;actually do a pretty good job&#8221; with certain types of regulatory tasks.  This ignores two important facts:</p>
<p>1.  Jeffersonet didn&#8217;t work very well for a lot of folks until broadband became widely available.  Even old-fashioned web pages didn&#8217;t load very fast over dial-up, for a lot of users in the &#8220;first 13 years&#8221;.  Personally, I&#8217;d say close to half that period lacked the sort of everyday experience of &#8220;working just fine&#8221; that you describe.</p>
<p>2.  Regulators have completely screwed up with respect to competition for the last mile (or last 100 feet) of cable/fiber.  I don&#8217;t know anyone (not one person) who has an actual choice of who provides cable internet access to his/her home.  This relates to the fact that I don&#8217;t know anyone who has an actual choice of who provides cable television, either.  (Yes, I know that I can get satellite service, from one other competitor, but that&#8217;s not a perfect substitute.)  Competition stopped when municipalities bent over and granted local monopolies.  Good regulatory policy would have ensured that multiple content providers could compete over the same infrastructure, just as multiple long-distance carriers can compete over the same telephony infrastructure, or multiple wireless carriers can compete over the same tower infrastructure.  That would still leave some regulatory and competitive problems, to be sure, but my local cable provider would behave much differentl (= better) if another provider could come to my home and say &#8220;here are our service options&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8930</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/04/17/two-internets-jeffersonet-edisonet/#comment-8930</guid>
		<description>Edisonet is a good name for what Verizon/SBC/etc want to do: 
treat their competitors like Edison treated Tesla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edisonet is a good name for what Verizon/SBC/etc want to do:<br />
treat their competitors like Edison treated Tesla</p>
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