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	<title>Comments on: Typical nonsense from SAP</title>
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	<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/</link>
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		<title>By: Ray Wang on SAP &#124; DBMS2 -- DataBase Management System Services</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-117012</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Wang on SAP &#124; DBMS2 -- DataBase Management System Services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-117012</guid>
		<description>[...] Wang made a terrific post based on SAP&#8217;s annual influencer love-in, an event which I no longer attend. Ray believes SAP has been in a &#8220;crisis&#8221;, and sums up his views as The Bottom Line  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wang made a terrific post based on SAP&#8217;s annual influencer love-in, an event which I no longer attend. Ray believes SAP has been in a &#8220;crisis&#8221;, and sums up his views as The Bottom Line  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mergers and Acqusitions: Analyzing them &#171; Decision Stats</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-110341</link>
		<dc:creator>Mergers and Acqusitions: Analyzing them &#171; Decision Stats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-110341</guid>
		<description>[...] Typical nonsense from SAP [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Typical nonsense from SAP [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mergers and Acqusitions: Analyzing them — DecisionStats</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-110294</link>
		<dc:creator>Mergers and Acqusitions: Analyzing them — DecisionStats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-110294</guid>
		<description>[...] Typical nonsense from SAP [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Typical nonsense from SAP [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mergers and Acqusitions: Analyzing them</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-101489</link>
		<dc:creator>Mergers and Acqusitions: Analyzing them</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 13:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-101489</guid>
		<description>[...] Typical nonsense from SAP [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Typical nonsense from SAP [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-82398</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-82398</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  Haven&#039;t reread this for a while ...

It&#039;s common for large companies to have furious internal discussions about how to handle a particular analyst, reporter, or other influencer. Microsoft gets the most press for this, I think, but they clearly all do it. One place Don Bulmer went beyond the pale is when he reflected some of those conversations back to me, very inaccurately.  E.g., Don misquoted Dennis Moore, presumably not knowing that Dennis and I used to talk for 4-5 hours at a time. Dennis might successfully deceive me on a product feature, but if Don Bulmer tells me Dennis Moore said something very uncharacteristic of him, and Dennis denies it, I confidently assume Don Bulmer is the one who&#039;s lying. Especially since Don said a number of other implausible or obviously insincere things in the same discussions ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  Haven&#8217;t reread this for a while &#8230;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s common for large companies to have furious internal discussions about how to handle a particular analyst, reporter, or other influencer. Microsoft gets the most press for this, I think, but they clearly all do it. One place Don Bulmer went beyond the pale is when he reflected some of those conversations back to me, very inaccurately.  E.g., Don misquoted Dennis Moore, presumably not knowing that Dennis and I used to talk for 4-5 hours at a time. Dennis might successfully deceive me on a product feature, but if Don Bulmer tells me Dennis Moore said something very uncharacteristic of him, and Dennis denies it, I confidently assume Don Bulmer is the one who&#8217;s lying. Especially since Don said a number of other implausible or obviously insincere things in the same discussions &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4403</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4403</guid>
		<description>Dennis,

It seems I created for you the expectation that I would engage in a detailed, more or less classical, flame war.  (Or at least a one-sided one, as I don&#039;t think SAP wants to engage in that.)  I&#039;m sorry for any confusion.  That was not and is not my intention.

I publish blogs for free; and I must admit that for that and other reasons I do not always do everything I could to be maximally persuasive to every one of my readers.  If my neglect in this regard causes you to become an ex-reader, I will have to accept the disappointment and move on.
 
CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis,</p>
<p>It seems I created for you the expectation that I would engage in a detailed, more or less classical, flame war.  (Or at least a one-sided one, as I don&#8217;t think SAP wants to engage in that.)  I&#8217;m sorry for any confusion.  That was not and is not my intention.</p>
<p>I publish blogs for free; and I must admit that for that and other reasons I do not always do everything I could to be maximally persuasive to every one of my readers.  If my neglect in this regard causes you to become an ex-reader, I will have to accept the disappointment and move on.</p>
<p>CAM</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Howlett</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4386</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Howlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4386</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m none the wiser. Sorry. Why should I believe anything you say if you&#039;re not prepared to substantiate? You opened the box and to use the word &#039;lie&#039; requires some explanation. I&#039;ve followed SAP for 14 years and while I know the secretive bit very well, my sense is they&#039;re changing. I find they&#039;re far more open than 2 years ago let alone 14. So I&#039;m sorry - without any validation you can squirm as much as you like but I&#039;m afraid you&#039;re starting to look like a ranting bore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m none the wiser. Sorry. Why should I believe anything you say if you&#8217;re not prepared to substantiate? You opened the box and to use the word &#8216;lie&#8217; requires some explanation. I&#8217;ve followed SAP for 14 years and while I know the secretive bit very well, my sense is they&#8217;re changing. I find they&#8217;re far more open than 2 years ago let alone 14. So I&#8217;m sorry &#8211; without any validation you can squirm as much as you like but I&#8217;m afraid you&#8217;re starting to look like a ranting bore.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4375</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4375</guid>
		<description>Arggh.  Maybe this outline will add a little clarity.  However, let me say in advance that I have no intention of trying to provide enough detail that an outside observer can judge who is right and who is wrong.  Nobody is going to pursue a legal remedy here, for all sorts of obvious reasons, and absent that there&#039;s not going to be any indepedent adjudication.  Sorry.

Anyhow, the context to my comments is this:  I had a fairly standard situation with SAP in which they bought some services, had an internal management change, and had second thoughts as a result.  And as is common in such awkward situations, there was some stringing-along and so on.  When things finally became clear, I said in effect &quot;Whoa.  That&#039;s highly unethical.&quot;  And they said, in effect, &quot;I don&#039;t know what you&#039;re talking about.&quot;

Up to that point, the story is one of an ordinary business dispute, and we all know that big companies sometimes have sharp elbows.  Of course, I was right and they were wrong, and there aren&#039;t even two legitimate sides to the matter, but you&#039;re free to not believe me, since I&#039;m not going to try to prove my case here.  

However, from there they were left with the problem of &quot;handling&quot; my outrage.  Unfortunately, they chose a path of downright lies (and of course all sorts of other nonsense mixed in).  Not only is that bad, but it leads me to suspect that the original problem stems from more deliberate and/or reckless dishonesty than my recounting above suggests. 

As for why I called them out on it publicly, rather than swallowing it and moving on?  Multiple reasons, none of which I particularly feel like sharing, except that I direct your attention to the phrase &quot;and lied about&quot; that I used in the original post.  

OK. That&#039;s more than I planned to say, so please let&#039;s not have more nudging for more details.  If you&#039;re unsatisfied, tough.

CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arggh.  Maybe this outline will add a little clarity.  However, let me say in advance that I have no intention of trying to provide enough detail that an outside observer can judge who is right and who is wrong.  Nobody is going to pursue a legal remedy here, for all sorts of obvious reasons, and absent that there&#8217;s not going to be any indepedent adjudication.  Sorry.</p>
<p>Anyhow, the context to my comments is this:  I had a fairly standard situation with SAP in which they bought some services, had an internal management change, and had second thoughts as a result.  And as is common in such awkward situations, there was some stringing-along and so on.  When things finally became clear, I said in effect &#8220;Whoa.  That&#8217;s highly unethical.&#8221;  And they said, in effect, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re talking about.&#8221;</p>
<p>Up to that point, the story is one of an ordinary business dispute, and we all know that big companies sometimes have sharp elbows.  Of course, I was right and they were wrong, and there aren&#8217;t even two legitimate sides to the matter, but you&#8217;re free to not believe me, since I&#8217;m not going to try to prove my case here.  </p>
<p>However, from there they were left with the problem of &#8220;handling&#8221; my outrage.  Unfortunately, they chose a path of downright lies (and of course all sorts of other nonsense mixed in).  Not only is that bad, but it leads me to suspect that the original problem stems from more deliberate and/or reckless dishonesty than my recounting above suggests. </p>
<p>As for why I called them out on it publicly, rather than swallowing it and moving on?  Multiple reasons, none of which I particularly feel like sharing, except that I direct your attention to the phrase &#8220;and lied about&#8221; that I used in the original post.  </p>
<p>OK. That&#8217;s more than I planned to say, so please let&#8217;s not have more nudging for more details.  If you&#8217;re unsatisfied, tough.</p>
<p>CAM</p>
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		<title>By: David Tebbutt</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4373</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tebbutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4373</guid>
		<description>Strikes me that you&#039;re hinting around like fury. How about writing a private note to Dennis that he can verify. Then he can post a validation of your comments here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strikes me that you&#8217;re hinting around like fury. How about writing a private note to Dennis that he can verify. Then he can post a validation of your comments here.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4370</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.monashreport.com/2007/01/03/sap-nonsense-ethics/#comment-4370</guid>
		<description>Dennis,

Usually, companies show their best faces to analysts.  Or if they don&#039;t, they fall down in different ways than I experienced with SAP (e.g., they&#039;re stupidly secretive, they&#039;re inappropriately combative, they overhype, etc.).  SAP, by way of contrast, engaged in some bad ethical behavior with me, and when I called them on it wound up compounding it multiple times over, up to the level of clearcut lies.  That&#039;s not a fatal condemnation of the company; it&#039;s just a warning flag.  

At this point, I don&#039;t see where it&#039;s a great idea to delve down into the specifics.  (Events could change my mind of course.)   But I did feel it was more appropriate to be fairly straightforward about what I am thinking here than to just hint around it for some indeterminate, possibly long period of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis,</p>
<p>Usually, companies show their best faces to analysts.  Or if they don&#8217;t, they fall down in different ways than I experienced with SAP (e.g., they&#8217;re stupidly secretive, they&#8217;re inappropriately combative, they overhype, etc.).  SAP, by way of contrast, engaged in some bad ethical behavior with me, and when I called them on it wound up compounding it multiple times over, up to the level of clearcut lies.  That&#8217;s not a fatal condemnation of the company; it&#8217;s just a warning flag.  </p>
<p>At this point, I don&#8217;t see where it&#8217;s a great idea to delve down into the specifics.  (Events could change my mind of course.)   But I did feel it was more appropriate to be fairly straightforward about what I am thinking here than to just hint around it for some indeterminate, possibly long period of time.</p>
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